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Traveller-digest     Thursday, December 9 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1469<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Just How Charted *is* Charted Space?<BR>
RE: Pinhead (was: Question)<BR>
Deserts (wwas re: the stresses of being a grunt)<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Attn: Humour [keyboard warning] (longish)<BR>
Re:  One day, one day<BR>
re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
Re: One day, one day<BR>
RE: Captain with the away team<BR>
re: Captain with the away team<BR>
Re: your mail<BR>
Paintball and morality (was Re: OT/Flamebait ...)<BR>
Re: electronic warfare<BR>
Re: Paintball and morality (was Re: OT/Flamebait ...)<BR>
Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:07:30 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Just How Charted *is* Charted Space?<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor wrote:<BR>
> What is the status of the information that appeared in 'Vilani<BR>
> and Vargr' and 'Solomani and Aslan'?<BR>
><BR>
> There were a couple of 'macro maps' showing system position in<BR>
> these books. I was wondering if the detailed info actually got<BR>
> published anywhere. Can anyone give me any leads?<BR>
<BR>
There was a note from DGP in either TD or MTJ which  stated  that<BR>
they  not  only  had  no  intention  of  mapping  out  all  these<BR>
additional sectors in detail, but they felt that to do  so  would<BR>
limit  Referee's  freedom  to   invent   their   own   universes.<BR>
Consequently after generating these macro maps their data  (which<BR>
was positional only) was deliberatly thrown away.  (Of course you<BR>
can determine this data from the maps themselves.)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:16:44 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Pinhead (was: Question)<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
> > (about nobles) need to be addressed? How many angels can dance<BR>
> > on a pinhead, and why does he put up with it at all?<BR>
><BR>
> Because he is "an explorer at the frontiers of experience" and<BR>
> understands that "pain and pleasure are only two sides of the<BR>
> same coin"?<BR>
><BR>
> PS. Any other fans of the Hellraiser movies out there? :-)<BR>
<BR>
Yup.  And I was lucky  enough  to  attend  a  special  completely<BR>
uncensored screening of Hellraiser II, where I got  Clive  Barker<BR>
to sign my copy of the video of the first film.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone ever used 'the  box'  in  their  Traveller  campaigns?<BR>
I've thought about it over the years  but  after  all  the  ghost<BR>
ships and weird Ancient sites my group have encountered todate  I<BR>
am reluctant to do so myself.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:16:24 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Deserts (wwas re: the stresses of being a grunt)<BR>
<BR>
Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>><BR>
My personal feeling is that as stuff gets shrunk or<BR>
disposed of, the Army just finds more crap for you to<BR>
lug about, amazing the useless bits of kit they foist<BR>
upon us (mosquito nets while we're on a snowy<BR>
mountain, sleeping bags in deserts, etc)<BR>
>>>>>>><BR>
While I'll agree with you on the mosquito nets, don't most deserts<BR>
get pretty chilly at night?<BR>
<BR>
Or is that just North Africa?<BR>
<BR>
(Anecdote from a friend's father, flight engineer on a WW2 medium<BR>
bomber  - they were sent directly from the US to a base in Tunisia,<BR>
with summer clothes and summer tents, he said they nearly froze<BR>
their bits off in the night wind.)<BR>
<BR>
Now, for a grunt of the 3I, the foxhole he's hunkering in this evening<BR>
could be a continent away from the tree stump he was hiding behind<BR>
this morning. His environmental kit had better be pretty compact,<BR>
as he might need all of it.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 07:29:26 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
>turns out to be a Rules Lawyer or munchkin. I hand him<BR>
>that (him ain't sexist, never met a female gamer who<BR>
>was a rules lawyer or munchkin) and we're all happy.<BR>
<BR>
I have -- I know a female gamer who is also a munchkin. One<BR>
who has other unwelcome qualities. On two separate occasions,<BR>
two different games, she decided her character wasn't working<BR>
out the way she wanted, and asked the GM if she could change<BR>
characters. On both occasions, the new character was virtually<BR>
a clone of the original. On the second occasion, the GM flatly<BR>
refused to allow the new character, on those very grounds. She<BR>
left the game after throwing a hissy fit over the issue. Many of<BR>
the rest of us did the Dance of Joy when she was finally gone...<BR>
including the GM.<BR>
<BR>
To be fair, of the several female gamers I've known, she is the<BR>
only munchkin example, and I've never known a female rules lawyer.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 07:39:40 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
>> I think it's more of it being another example of the principle "90% of<BR>
>> everything is crap".<BR>
><BR>
>Fair enough. In the beginning of his second chapter Postman points out that<BR>
>crap is what television is good at. On his line the junk on television is<BR>
>not the problem, the problem is that television doesn't stick to junk.<BR>
<BR>
What, he argues *against* quality television shows???<BR>
<BR>
>Like I said, I haven't read the work that you've written, I can only imagine<BR>
>what his argument would be like from what I have read. I would suspect his<BR>
>question is whether or not these people *are* reacting accordingly, and if<BR>
>their reactions are beneficial to society as a whole.<BR>
<BR>
"Beneficial to society as a whole", from the perspective of what *he* deems<BR>
valuable in a society, which may or may not be what others find valuable.<BR>
<BR>
>>Part of the success of the CCG is due to the fact that<BR>
>>*anything* associated with Pokemon is making money hand over<BR>
>>fist.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course. This was one fad which I didn't expect to take off as quickly as<BR>
>it did.<BR>
<BR>
If only the animation weren't so... so... awful.<BR>
<BR>
>>Part of it is that CCGs are easier for the younger set (the ones<BR>
>>into Pokemon in the first place) than RPGs are.<BR>
><BR>
>That goes without saying. The only problem with that line of reasoning is<BR>
>that ages for Pokemon fandom are literally all over the map. It seems like<BR>
>the franchise is popular for kids from 5 or 6 to about 16, which is a really<BR>
>strange demographic. That's really fascinating because it straddles three<BR>
>toy age groups.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting. Most teenagers around here see Pokemon as something for "little<BR>
kids", as if they're trying to show how cool and/or sophisticated they are<BR>
by distancing themselves from the phenomenon -- it gives them a tangible<BR>
focus for differentiating themselves from their younger peers.<BR>
<BR>
>>And card collecting seems to go with<BR>
>>that age group -- at that age, I collected hockey cards.<BR>
><BR>
>Yeah, but you're Canadian! I would expect you to have come out of the womb<BR>
>with a hockey stick! ;)<BR>
<BR>
My American contemporaries no doubt collected baseball cards at the time<BR>
I was collecting hockey cards.<BR>
<BR>
>Incidentally, sports card collecting among kids in the use has been<BR>
>declining at an astonishing rate. The prices for card packs have been going<BR>
>up sharply since the early 90s. Card companies are trying all kinds of<BR>
>things to lure kids back into the fold with little success.<BR>
<BR>
As soon as they became a hot item for adults to collect, the card companies<BR>
reacted by making the cards for the adult collector audience, rather than<BR>
the kids. Prices also rose, since adults can afford more than the kids can.<BR>
As long as your primary market is the kids spending their allowance, you<BR>
keep prices low. (Pokemon can get away with high pricing for their cards,<BR>
since it's the parents who get cajoled into buying them...)<BR>
<BR>
(Reminds me of a recent episode of South Park, which parodied the Pokemon<BR>
craze...)<BR>
<BR>
>>thinks now -- it's been several years since we've had contact. (She<BR>
>>moved to Seattle to take a job with WotC, of all things!)<BR>
><BR>
>Magic is still going strong, so I think her job's safe, at the very least.<BR>
>They must be doing pretty well to be able to afford afterschool advertising<BR>
>time on MTV!<BR>
<BR>
Her job was on the editorial staff of one of their RPGs. Ars Magica, if I<BR>
remember correctly. <BR>
<BR>
Man, are we ever getting OT here... and I can't think of an ObTrav...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:44:04 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
Why i chose the words i used in my post.<BR>
<BR>
Semi automatic.  THe weapon was not automatic, one trigger pull equals one<BR>
round.  However, the weapon was a gravity loader and did not require a pump<BR>
action.<BR>
<BR>
Burst.  I fired three times in quick succession.  Technically not a burst as<BR>
one trigger pull did not fire three rounds.  However, i wanted to convey the<BR>
impression that i fired rapidly at the same target and not sprayed willy<BR>
nilly like some actor.<BR>
<BR>
Cannonball splash.  You all jumped off a diving board and done a cannonball<BR>
into the water.  When the paintball hit it literally splashed in just such a<BR>
fashion with blaze orange color.<BR>
<BR>
Glorious.  It was.  Does that mean i can't wait to get training and go into<BR>
a real shooting war?  F*** that, i never want to be on the same continent as<BR>
a war.  That said, i would serve my country if called upon ( despite being<BR>
too old ) but would probably be a Star Trek red shirt my only time under<BR>
fire.<BR>
<BR>
Moral Dilemna.  When i first joined this tangent i said i wondered about a<BR>
sport ( paintball ) where you have to point a gun at somebody and pull a<BR>
trigger.  I am not comfortable with that and that's why i haven't played in<BR>
five years.  However, can a case be made that a paintball is so clearly<BR>
different from a regular firearm that it doesn't matter if i point it at<BR>
somebody and shoot him?  I don't know.  Barring an answer i won't play<BR>
again.<BR>
<BR>
Now that i've left the ranks of the lurkers i hope this answers some<BR>
questions.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 11:19 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>--- Eric Henry <ehenry@newberlin.org> wrote:<BR>
>> Oh okay.  I'll simply re-live the moment when i<BR>
>> popped out from a window and<BR>
>> walked a beautiful three round semi-automatic burst<BR>
>> right up somebody's<BR>
>> torso with the final round bursting like a<BR>
>> cannonball splash right on their<BR>
>> goggles.<BR>
><BR>
>How can you have a semi-automatic "burst"? This I<BR>
>think somebody else said is teh perils of paintball<BR>
>and the like: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:46:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca><BR>
Subject: Attn: Humour [keyboard warning] (longish)<BR>
<BR>
Thought I'd pass this on from the Full Thrust mail list for your daily<BR>
humour ration.<BR>
Apologies to the Digest readers.<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Alan E and Carmel J Brain <aebrain@dynamite.com.au><BR>
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU><BR>
Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 4:21 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: [FT] [OT]Darth Vader's Advice to the class of 99<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Since the Great SML vs Banzai Jammer debate threatens to start<BR>
>generating more heat than light, here's a snippet that should lighten up<BR>
>the atmosphere a bit.<BR>
><BR>
>DARTH VADER'S THOUGHTS TO THE CLASS OF '99<BR>
><BR>
>Ladies and Gentlemen of the Vassar College class of '99...embrace the<BR>
>Dark Side.  If I could offer you only one tip for the future, the Dark<BR>
>Side would be it.  The long-term benefits of the Dark Side have been<BR>
>proved by the Dark Lords of The Sith, whereas the rest of my advice<BR>
>has no basis more reliable than my own meandering cruelty and<BR>
>conquests. I will dispense this advice now...<BR>
><BR>
>Enjoy the power and beauty of your planet.<BR>
><BR>
>Oh, never mind, you will never understand the power and the beauty of<BR>
>your planet until after the Empire has destroyed it in a futile<BR>
>attempt to find a Rebel Base.  But trust me, in twenty years, you will<BR>
>look back at photos of your home and recall, in a way you can't grasp<BR>
>now, how blissfully ignorant you were, and how fabulous your planet<BR>
>really looked before it was a pile of burning space rubble. Your<BR>
>planet is not as dull as you imagine.<BR>
><BR>
>Don't worry about the Rebellion - or worry, but know that worrying is<BR>
>as effective as trying to make the Kessel run in a landspeeder. The<BR>
>real troubles in your life are apt to be things that never crossed<BR>
>your twisted mind. The kind that fire a direct hit into your reactor<BR>
>core at 4 PM on some idle Tuesday.<BR>
><BR>
>Do in one Death Star officer every day.<BR>
><BR>
>Scheme.<BR>
><BR>
>Don't disobey the Emperor's orders; don't put up with people who<BR>
>disobey yours.<BR>
><BR>
>Hate.<BR>
><BR>
>Don't waste your time on Stormtroopers. They can't hit the broad side<BR>
>of an AT-AT.<BR>
><BR>
>The battle is long and in the end, it's only with yourself. And your<BR>
>idiot son. Remember the prophecies of the Emperor; ignore the whinings<BR>
>of your bratty upstart farmboy of a son. If you succeed in doing this,<BR>
>tell me how.<BR>
><BR>
>Keep your old lightsaber, but change your costume slightly with every<BR>
>sequel.<BR>
><BR>
>Destroy.<BR>
><BR>
>Don't feel guilty if you have no misgivings about joining the Dark<BR>
>Side. The most interesting people I know didn't have any respect at 22<BR>
>for their victim's lives. Some of the most interesting 40-year olds I<BR>
>know still don't.<BR>
><BR>
>Have plenty of minions.<BR>
><BR>
>Be kind to your right hand, you'll miss it when it's gone.<BR>
><BR>
>Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't. Maybe your son will join you,<BR>
>maybe he won't. Maybe you'll convince your daughter to become a dark<BR>
>Jedi and assist you in your campaign of hatred and destruction; maybe<BR>
>she'll become a rebel leader and marry a scruffy-looking nerf herder.<BR>
><BR>
>Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate<BR>
>yourself either. Your destiny is guided by the Force. So is everybody<BR>
>else's.<BR>
><BR>
>Enjoy the Force. Exploit it every way you can. Don't be afraid of it<BR>
>or what other people think of your "sorcerer's ways." The ability to<BR>
>destroy a planet is insignificant next to its power.<BR>
><BR>
>Kill. Even if you have no one to kill but a meaningless extra.<BR>
><BR>
>Listen to what the Emperor has foreseen, even if you don't follow his<BR>
>prophecies.<BR>
><BR>
>Do not take your mask off, it will only make you feel ugly. And<BR>
>vulnerable.<BR>
><BR>
>Get to know your parents. You'll never know when they'll turn out to<BR>
>be your arch enemies. Be nice to your siblings. They are your best<BR>
>link to your Jedi lineage and the ones most likely to become Jedi in<BR>
>the future.<BR>
><BR>
>Understand  that lackeys come and go. But with a precious few, you<BR>
>should keep from crushing their tracheas. Work hard to bridge the gaps<BR>
>in geography and lifestyle, for as the more desperate you become, the<BR>
>more you will need to send bounty hunters to do your dirty work for<BR>
>you.<BR>
><BR>
>Live on Dagobah once, but leave before you get foot rot.<BR>
><BR>
>Live on Tattooine once, but leave before you get heat stroke.<BR>
><BR>
>Travel. Preferably in your own custom TIE Fighter.<BR>
><BR>
>Accept certain inalienable truths: rebellions will rise, the Imperial<BR>
>Senate will have to be disbanded, you too will get old. And when you<BR>
>do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, rebels were easily<BR>
>crushed, the Imperial Senate was subservient, and citizens respected<BR>
>their Emperor.<BR>
><BR>
>Respect your Emperor. Don't expect your son to rule the galaxy with<BR>
>you. Maybe he'll give in to his anger, maybe he'll strike you down,<BR>
>but you'll never know when he'll whine pleadingly and you'll find<BR>
>yourself turning to the Light Side and saving his sorry butt.<BR>
><BR>
>Don't strike down your old Jedi Master, or he will become more<BR>
>powerful than you could possibly imagine.<BR>
><BR>
>Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply<BR>
>it,  or I'll crush your throat. Advice is a form of nostalgia.<BR>
>Dispensing it is a way of fishing your humanity from the depths of<BR>
>sin, wiping it off, putting  black body armor over the ugly parts and<BR>
>redeeming it for more  than its worth.<BR>
><BR>
>But trust me on the Dark Side.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>              http://www2.dynamite.com.au/aebrain<BR>
>aebrain@dynamite.com.au     <> <>    How doth the little Crocodile<BR>
>| Alan & Carmel Brain|      xxxxx       Improve his shining tail?<BR>
>| Canberra Australia |  xxxxxHxHxxxxxx _MMMMMMMMM_MMMMMMMMM<BR>
> abrain@cs.adfa.edu.au o O*OO^^^^OO*O o oo     oo oo     oo<BR>
>                       By pulling MAERKLIN Wagons, in 1/220 Scale<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:54:59 +0800<BR>
From: "Mick Bailey" <mickb@iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re:  One day, one day<BR>
<BR>
>What is full time?<BR>
<BR>
End of the game (end of the 4th quarter)...either that or the time that<BR>
certain spectators have finally had a stomachfull of the watered down beer<BR>
on sale at Subiaco Oval and make their way to the dunny to offload dome...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
mick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:56:51 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
The term "prizes" refers to ships and/or cargo _seized_ through<BR>
legitimate means.  Thus, military vessels engaged in commerce raiding,<BR>
privateers, patrol ships performing customs duties, and civilian vessels<BR>
that defeat would-be pirates all can claim their vanquished foes as<BR>
"prizes."  Neither the original owner of the prize ship or cargo, nor<BR>
any creditors of the prize ship's or cargo's owner, have any claim to<BR>
the prize.<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
Wait a minute. If Sunbeard steals my company's Patrol Cruiser, and<BR>
your merchant crew gets lucky and wins his boarding action against<BR>
you, you now own my ship outright?<BR>
<BR>
If the crew of a brand-new, 40-year payments remaining Far Trader<BR>
mutinies,  spaces the ship owner, then gets themselves killed trying to <BR>
pirate a supply shuttle, the bank loses their entire interest in the<BR>
Far Trader?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I think the above needs to be amended to cover stolen property used<BR>
in the commission of a crime. Otherwise, you'll have another reason<BR>
we  won't be seeing mortgages on starships.<BR>
<BR>
Here's a thought:<BR>
If the Captain of such a new ship breaks a bad smuggling law and his ship <BR>
gets seized, does the bank lose all their interest in the ship as well?<BR>
Or does the mortgage contract have a clause that, if the Captain ever<BR>
uses his ship in a fashion that will get it seized, he is immediately <BR>
considered to be in breach of contract, and *no longer* the legitimate<BR>
owner of the vessel? His possession of it could then be considered<BR>
illegitimate, and the seized ship ight have to be returned to the rightful<BR>
owner (the bank) as recovered stolen property used in the commission<BR>
of a crime, rather than retained by the seizing government. <BR>
<BR>
The bank would love this, but I could see some governments claiming that <BR>
the bank had hired the Captain to do just this kind of thing. Especially<BR>
if the exact same Far Trader gets snagged two months from now, with<BR>
a different Captain, and the bank's lawyers primed and ready with the<BR>
same arguments.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:27:43 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Re: One day, one day<BR>
<BR>
>>What is full time?<BR>
<BR>
>End of the game (end of the 4th quarter)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Or end of the second half.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
Football of course, being football.  Not American football or Australian<BR>
football.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:34:54 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Captain with the away team<BR>
<BR>
The Roc writes:<BR>
>Phil Kitching wrote:<BR>
>>>Why refer to fiction? Aren't the the voyages of Captain Cook<BR>
>>>on the Endevour perfect examples of the Captain deciding that<BR>
>>>his mission was exploring on shore, not watching from the ship.<BR>
>Kyle replied,<BR>
>>yes, and Cook ended up getting eaten by Polynesians... Why<BR>
>>should a Captain take risks? That's what PCs are for:) (evil<BR>
>>chuckle)<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Does the PC in charge of the mission remain on board while the<BR>
>others go down and deal with all the dangerous encounters?<BR>
>Doesn't make for an exciting night for the leader's player I'd<BR>
>think if the session went for several hours and the leader just<BR>
>sat there reading a Dragon mag or a comic?  For the same reason,<BR>
>I think the away team in the ST universe contains senior officers,<BR>
>similar rules?  But that's just me, it's not for realism as much<BR>
>as "fun?"<BR>
<BR>
	I like the Captain Cook model myself.  Sure there is risk to<BR>
	the officer who has cost a lot to train, but there is also<BR>
	a risk in letting a less-trained officer make first contact<BR>
	with a new civilization.  Of course, not all landing parties<BR>
	involve first contact, but the judgement of the senior<BR>
	officer aboard may be valuable in a lot of ways.<BR>
<BR>
	Also remember that the captain may just want to see the world<BR>
	for her/himself (that may be why they signed up in the first<BR>
	place).  The captain may also be itching to get off the ship<BR>
	after long periods in relatively cramped quarters.  Every<BR>
	officer is different, of course, but unless regulations<BR>
	prohibit such actions some captains may insist on getting<BR>
	their hands dirty (some may even find a way around certain<BR>
	regulations).<BR>
<BR>
	Finally, there is the fun factor.  Wherever possible, I like<BR>
	to have the PCs in charge.  If there is a commanding officer,<BR>
	I almost always want it to be a PC.  If that PC prefers to<BR>
	stay out of the action, that's OK, but if they want to go<BR>
	down with the first landing party, that's great.  I don't<BR>
	really think that a totally realistic universe would be all<BR>
	that fun to RPG in (see the Real World (tm)), so I don't mind<BR>
	allowing the PCs a little latitude in this regard.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:50:55 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Captain with the away team<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
Finally, there is the fun factor.  Wherever possible, I like<BR>
	to have the PCs in charge.  If there is a commanding officer,<BR>
	I almost always want it to be a PC.  If that PC prefers to<BR>
	stay out of the action, that's OK, but if they want to go<BR>
	down with the first landing party, that's great.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Thus we have the 3-6 man crews on Scout Ships, Safari Ships,<BR>
Far Traders in exploratory merchant roles, and such. Make the crew<BR>
small enough, and the "Captain" is also the security officer, air/raft<BR>
driver, third packbearer on the left or other role that requires him to <BR>
get his hands dirty - too many hats, not enough people for him to<BR>
be just "Captain".<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:01:23 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: your mail<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> >>Back to Traveller, however, there is no guarantee<BR>
> that the other<BR>
> non-human<BR>
> species have this tendency [to not want to kill].<BR>
> Watch out.>><BR>
> <BR>
> i think there is a guarantee - natural selection. Any<BR>
> species that's eager to kill its own species will<BR>
> never be terribly populous. If they do rise<BR>
> technologically, it'll take longer, since thinking<BR>
> types will tend not to survive!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
BZZZT...thankyew for playing.<BR>
<BR>
Exhibit A: H. sapiens. Happily killing each other in numbers large and<BR>
small for millions of years, constantly inventing more and better ways of <BR>
doing so. <BR>
<BR>
Now the dominant mammal on the planet.<BR>
<BR>
(after the rat, of course, but the rats will always win. I'm just happy<BR>
we don't lay eggs...that's how they got the dinosaurs.)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:11:28 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Paintball and morality (was Re: OT/Flamebait ...)<BR>
<BR>
>Moral Dilemna. ... However, can a case be made that a paintball is so clearly<BR>
>different from a regular firearm that it doesn't matter if i point it at<BR>
>somebody and shoot him?  I don't know.  Barring an answer i won't play<BR>
>again.<BR>
<BR>
Question: How do you feel about fencing? As a sport, that is? And how is<BR>
paintball different in it's moral implications.<BR>
<BR>
My, how topics wander.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: MILES gear too unrealistic and easy to spoof? Maybe duels in the<BR>
future are fought with "smart pellets" -- little, plastic, grav-powered<BR>
bullets that perform like the real things yet have the ability to adjust<BR>
their velocity to make them safe during the critical moments before a hit.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:19:19 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: electronic warfare<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Thomas Vickers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The thing is not whether or not you can stop him talking, but whether<BR>
> or not you can exploit his talking, a much easier task.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> I gotta agree with this. You may not be able to stop an opponent from<BR>
> talking or hear what is being said, but you can triangulate his position and<BR>
> drop ordinance on him till he can't talk. That is a very simple low tech<BR>
> approach to hi tech comm systems :)<BR>
<BR>
Not if they're using frequency hopping, LOS systems (if they're<BR>
communicating to command posts behind them, and you're in front of them,<BR>
how to you intercept or track a laser beam?) compressed signals, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:26:20 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Paintball and morality (was Re: OT/Flamebait ...)<BR>
<BR>
Hah, that's easy.  Back in high school ( 15 years ago ), I got my ass kicked<BR>
by every girl in class during fencing.<BR>
<BR>
Fencing is an evil, evil thing.<BR>
<BR>
Good points<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 10:29 AM<BR>
Subject: Paintball and morality (was Re: OT/Flamebait ...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Question: How do you feel about fencing? As a sport, that is? And how is<BR>
>paintball different in it's moral implications.<BR>
><BR>
>My, how topics wander.<BR>
><BR>
>ObTrav: MILES gear too unrealistic and easy to spoof? Maybe duels in the<BR>
>future are fought with "smart pellets" -- little, plastic, grav-powered<BR>
>bullets that perform like the real things yet have the ability to adjust<BR>
>their velocity to make them safe during the critical moments before a hit.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:33:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG)<BR>
<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> What, he argues *against* quality television shows???<BR>
<BR>
It depends on what you mean by "quality". If you mean, say, shows that tell<BR>
a compelling story through picture and sound (what television is good at),<BR>
then no, he doesn't argue against quality television. In fact, he makes the<BR>
claim that television doesn't take that job seriously enough. If, on the<BR>
other hand, you mean "quality" in the sense of programs with marginal<BR>
educational content, or some sort of lasting informational content, then<BR>
yes, he does argue against quality television.<BR>
<BR>
When people make claims that there is too much crap on television, they<BR>
usually mean that "good" programs will be educational in nature. In this<BR>
sense, Sesame Street would be good, while, say Power Rangers would be bad.<BR>
He's not arguing against a better Power Rangers, he's arguing against any<BR>
sort of Sesame Street at all.<BR>
<BR>
That doesn't mean that he's arguing that kids shouldn't be educated, just<BR>
that giving them something which kind of resembles an education through a<BR>
series of unconnected, commercial length vignettes may not be such a great<BR>
idea. It is his argument that perhaps education should not be the domain of<BR>
*entertainment*, and specifically an entertainment medium in which short and<BR>
non-challenging segments are absolute requirements. To support<BR>
<BR>
In the same vein, but on a different topic, he argues that the American<BR>
political process has been changed fundamentally, for the worse, by the<BR>
integration of television into the political process, for the same reason.<BR>
The coarse version of his argument is: Perhaps our candidates should not be<BR>
selected on the basis of how photogenic they are, or how well they can spit<BR>
out one-line soundbites.<BR>
<BR>
This is the direction that television goes *naturally*, because this is what<BR>
television is best at.<BR>
<BR>
> "Beneficial to society as a whole", from the perspective of what *he*<BR>
>deems valuable in a society, which may or may not be what others<BR>
>find valuable.<BR>
<BR>
One can argue, convincingly, that the "game of marbles" style of politics<BR>
that has been standard in America since the advent of television is *not*<BR>
beneficial to society as a whole, as one example.<BR>
<BR>
To move away from Postman now, I'll inject my own comments:<BR>
<BR>
Your claim is that the youth of today are reacting appropriately to new<BR>
technologies as they appear. I hope that's a fair characterization. I would<BR>
disagree with this wholeheartedly. I'm a *huge* movie buff. I go to see lots<BR>
of new movies. I suspect you've gathered that much already from our offlist<BR>
correspondence. My moviegoing experience has changed since the advent of the<BR>
beeper, but even moreso since the advent of the cellphone. Now it's<BR>
extremely common to hear one or more people in the audience receive a<BR>
cellphone call or a page. It's also common for people nearby to call their<BR>
friends to tell them how cool the scene they just saw was, or how they got<BR>
suckered into going to see a terrible movie. Don't even get me started on<BR>
laser pointers... you haven't lived until you've seen a stylized hand with<BR>
an extended middle finger superimposed over Keanu Reeves's face in The<BR>
Matrix, or a dinosaur head superimposed devouring Will Smith in Enemy of the<BR>
State. Then there is that growing segment of people, kids and older folks<BR>
alike, who treat the movie-going experience as if they were watching a<BR>
really big screen TV at home, chatting throughout the entire movie.<BR>
<BR>
I'll admit, I haven't done a study on this or anything, but I do know that<BR>
even in my relatively short experience as a movie freak, that the experience<BR>
of going to the movies has deteriorated immensely as a result of the<BR>
inappropriate integration of technology into everyday life... even *if* you<BR>
remove the chatting in movie theaters, which may be controversial and it<BR>
might be argued was always with us. I would disagree, personally, simply<BR>
because there was a lot less of it when I was growing up.<BR>
<BR>
Having been the recipient of email bombs sent by kids who don't like to have<BR>
their points argued against on Usenet (points which, coincidentally, smacked<BR>
of television slogan-mongering). Having been in a class where a student,<BR>
upon receiving a cellphone call, argued with the teacher that he was a<BR>
paying customer, and as such had some sort of moral right to receive calls<BR>
whenever they came in, whether or not those calls were distracting to the<BR>
class.<BR>
<BR>
I will continue to maintain that there *are* inappropriate responses to<BR>
technology, and the ones I've illustrated exist purely on a personal level.<BR>
I don't even want to begin to speculate on what the impact of these<BR>
technologies are on a broader level. For example, television networks have<BR>
been taking it upon themselves to define (or perhaps redefine) American<BR>
morality through commercial length snippets. In these little "morality"<BR>
commercials, you will frequently hear comments such as, "...violence is<BR>
*never* the solution to *any* problem." There are also frequent<BR>
exhortations, frequently aimed at children, to talk to a counselor or<BR>
therapist.<BR>
<BR>
Which brings us back to the point that I raised in my first post on the<BR>
subject, the thread which resulted has now strayed off topic. I can bring it<BR>
back on topic, and indeed would like to. Unfortunately, in just over two<BR>
hours I will be battling (to the death, I might add) with Impressionism,<BR>
Expressionism, German Expressionism and Non-Objective Art in my Art History<BR>
final.<BR>
<BR>
My interest is not purely academic, as I have the hefty sum of one American<BR>
dollar riding on whether or not Cezanne's "The Great Bathers" ends up<BR>
projected on the wall during our exam.<BR>
<BR>
> If only the animation weren't so... so... awful.<BR>
<BR>
It is awful though, isn't it?<BR>
<BR>
> >strange demographic. That's really fascinating because it straddles three<BR>
> >toy age groups.<BR>
><BR>
> Interesting. Most teenagers around here see Pokemon as<BR>
>something for "little kids", as if they're trying to show how cool and/or<BR>
>sophisticated they are by distancing themselves from the<BR>
>phenomenon -- it gives them a tangible focus for differentiating<BR>
>themselves from their younger peers.<BR>
<BR>
That isn't the case here in Philadelphia!<BR>
<BR>
Clefable! Clefable!<BR>
<BR>
> >Yeah, but you're Canadian! I would expect you to have come out of<BR>
> >the womb with a hockey stick! ;)<BR>
><BR>
> My American contemporaries no doubt collected baseball cards at<BR>
>the time I was collecting hockey cards.<BR>
<BR>
I notice that you don't deny coming out of the womb with a hockey stick! ;)<BR>
<BR>
> As soon as they became a hot item for adults to collect, the card<BR>
>companies reacted by making the cards for the adult collector<BR>
>audience, rather than the kids. Prices also rose, since adults can<BR>
>afford more than the kids can. As long as your primary market is the<BR>
>kids spending their allowance, you keep prices low. (Pokemon can >get away<BR>
with high pricing for their cards, since it's the parents who<BR>
>get cajoled into buying them...)<BR>
<BR>
It could be argued that most toys for children, with the exception of *some*<BR>
action figures (and even then, not the accessories) must be bought by the<BR>
parents.<BR>
<BR>
> Her job was on the editorial staff of one of their RPGs. Ars Magica,<BR>
>if I remember correctly.<BR>
<BR>
Ach, then maybe her job wasn't all that secure. One wonders *why* someone<BR>
who believed that RPGs were going to go the way of the dodo would take a job<BR>
on the editorial staff for an RPG.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1469<BR>
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